Curse

wsmcasey · Mar 28, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

lol, factions.

Fluffyx · Mar 28, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Running is a profitable business in Guild Wars, we know that. But just like any other form of making money it has its side effects. In running its putting people where they dont belong usually. But my philosophy is that if they have enough money to pay for the run they have to have some concept of the game.

Str0b0 · Mar 28, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

Screw running, I want D2 Enigma armor for my warrior so I can teleport to droknars forge.

Enigma armor ftw!

BellyFlop · Mar 28, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I have not read everything but my opinion is I don’t see anything wrong with the whole running thing.

If people want to run and make some gold then do it.

If you want to farm and make some gold then do it.

I personally never paid for a runner or ever looked for a runner, it’s just my styles either I play the game like it was meant to be played or I don’t.

I don’t understand this whole run me to Droknar’s and I buy the best armour and get some nice skills but then what? Are these types of people really going to play the whole thing or paying again for another runner to the desert or something like that and avoid the whole jungle bit?

Anet says this game CAP is 20 cos they don’t want players to feel like they are in a treadmill type of game; well this is what’s happening in regards to runners demand. They don’t lv up but with an lv5 they want to have the max armour in the game.

Before you say its boring to play the whole thing again cos you done it before, let me just say I have 2 accounts, 6 PvE characters were 4 of them have done all the missions and I know it can get a bit boring but I never got rushed (Ok in Elona someone rushed the whole party

) and really enjoy playing it and I believe my knowledge of the game increased by doing that.

On my guild there are 2 guys that do runs all the time I don’t have a problem they make good gold, but its just not my thing I have seen videos of it and looks hard and boring and not something I want to spend my time in doing it, but good luck for the ones that do it.

I just don’t like is when I hear people got run when this is there first time plying the game and they miss loads of the quests/missions.

Again nothing wrong with runners but the only problem are the rip off runners that we keep hearing about in this forums, and the silly people that ask to be run and then exit, go afk etc... That’s a good idea not to get involved on the running business.

Quote:

I want D2 Enigma armor for my warrior so I can teleport

i would love to get one of them

, i still remeber it took me ages to get one. (craft)

RandomEngy · Mar 28, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I did the PvE campaign 3 times without running. It really is the fastest way to unlock everything. Do all the quests that give you 2 skills (there's two unlocks right there), do all the missions (one apiece) and hench your way through easy stuff, group up when doing less hench-friendly missions, experimenting with skills along the way.

For stuff beyond that, I can see wanting to get run, assuming their goal is Fissure armor or a PvP character with some PvE advantages, and not to have fun playing the game. Because I'm pretty sure doing all the missions is more fun than doing a few of the missions then farming someplace repeatedly.

Anyway, as long as they don't end up as a level 3 trying to sneak into my group and leech a mission off of me, I'm cool with it.

Agent Waffle · Mar 29, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I do agree that running is not going to give anyone the experience they need to play the game right. However, I have beeten the game with my R/e and found out a few things. I have had all 3 of my other charicters run to droks to get armor because I would end up spending more money on getting new armor over and over again, verse just paying the 2k to get your armor maxed and ready to go. I also got a run for my N/mo to copperhammer to get veretas sacrifice to be an MM. I just hated it when I was teaming with a 'MM' who was using heal area and BotM to heal his lvl 9 Bone Minoins. Even though I did get those runs, I still did the missions. MY goal was to save money, not finish the game in 3 hours.

Lord Iowerth · Mar 29, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Well, I make a few runs from time to time (although it just seems like guildies nowadays) and I quiz everyone that ever comes into the group: "Have you played the game through before? Is this a second or third character?" ... and to the suspicious ones: "Player xxxx, name one of the missions on the Ring of Fire islands" or "Who is the Visier really?"

I do my best to eliminate the possibility that i'm running someone new, but i'm sure a few have slipped by. If runners would do more of this, they might be able to curtail (or at least slow down) the number of persistently-supid players.

And Diablo, i've always thought of you as being a nice person and intelligent, so I sincerely hope this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Being in Drognars Forge is less exciting

Is a typo or an intentional joke

The Noble Savage · Mar 29, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

You have to understand that the option of running is open to everyone.. and the people who buy runs are simply the people in the game who want things and want things NOW. If they want to spend money well its not your money so big deal... you can turn it into profit too. I dont think its hurting the games economy it just means people have money to spend.

Diablo™ · Mar 29, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Blah! Damn those blasted english pronunciation deficiencies of mine...

Droknars...

Bleidd · Mar 29, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Can't believe this has actually gotten to page three...

obastable · Mar 29, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

The amount of lore in GW could be summarized, in point form, on two pages. I wouldn't consider that to be a great deal of lore, personally. A good book can't be summarized in so few points, so this game falls short IMO. In regards to the storyline, it has zero replay value. You get the exact same story regardless of how many times you go through the game, or which class you play. It doesn't help that the writing is sub par, and the voice acting is laughable (at best). But hey... that's just my opinion... don't let it ruin your game.

As to the arguement concerning running; if a player can afford a run through the game they have farmed enough to afford it (or bought the coin on Ebay, but that's a different discussion entirely). Either way, they have no desire or intention of playing the game as some would have them do it, and why should they? Anet has altered the game to allow people to be run through it. It offers both a money sink and a way for players to keep themselves occupied. If Anet honestly thought that Player A being run by Player B drastically reduced the quality of Player C's game, they wouldn't have allowed it to continue for as long as it has.

The arguement that the poor quality of PUGs is directly due to the amount of new players being run through the game is ludicrous. A better explanation would be the lack of valuable information being communicated in a group, and the inability of some players to adapt to unfamiliar builds. A good example would be my own son, who is 11 years old. He has played the game from start to finish, completing every mission and bonus, and PvPing enough to average 20 consecutive wins (sometimes more, sometimes less) in TA or RA with a W/Mo sword/protection build of his own design. He has never been to FoW or UW, and his understanding of aggro control is virtually non-existent. His team chat is generally limited to random comments relating to pie or cheese, and if you asked him if he was a good tank that knew what he was doing he'd tell you that he was. He'd even answer all of your questions about the storyline, etc., and so on. He'd also be the person in your group that would drive you nuts and get called a "noob". I know this for a fact because I've watched him play and seen it happen countless times. Thankfully he's smart enough to ignore it and just keeps on playing. My kid is one of those people that plays with unfamiliar builds and doesn't communicate very well (he's 11, what do you expect?). If he took some time to inform others of what he was doing and why he was doing it that way he probably would have finished the game much sooner. Even though I don't quite "get" the way he plays the game his way works no better or worse than mine. If I didn't know what was on his skill bar to compensate and compliment it, our groups would probably die quite quickly.

Anyway... enough ranting from me.. In the end, I feel the need to retirate that it's not runners or being run that leads to bad PUGs. Rather, I find poor communication and organization on the part of the PUG members to be the problem.

VGJustice · Mar 29, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Noble Savage

You have to understand that the option of running is open to everyone.. and the people who buy runs are simply the people in the game who want things and want things NOW. If they want to spend money well its not your money so big deal... you can turn it into profit too. I dont think its hurting the games economy it just means people have money to spend.

That's a good argument. Too bad it has no bearing on the original point, which is whether or not being run is detrimental to developing player skills. Good effort, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleidd

Can't believe this has actually gotten to page three...

Nor can I. And with minimal flames. Well, less than I expected, anyway.

I've seen a lot of good points and valid arguments here, but I'd like to see more. This will be the one and only time I bump the topic, so have fun while it lasts.

Beeline · Mar 29, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

It comes down to the simple fact that theres two main player types in this kind of game -

There are those who like "playing" games and will play through missions learning thier own skills, choosing thier own setups etc and finding all thier own items and physically playing the game with thier own skill. This is the traditional, and normal way you "play" a game - it has rules, there are challenges and theres a path to follow and of course a finality to it all (reaching lvl 20 in this case).

Then theres those who dont want to play a game, they just want to win it. There are many mechanisms the developers have included for this type of player such as the ability to be run somwhere due to the GW system of running through portals in a party, theres a pointless economy where everything that was worth something has been easily farmed to the point where we have a dozen very expensive things, and the rest are worthless. Theres the scripting engine GW has so generously included for the cheaters to use easily coded bots to farm areas 24/7 (the effect of scrpiting and farming and the pathetic attemp at creating a working economy is only that economy is worthless and buying gold from Ebay is easier than using your skill to earn it - there are over 1500 adverts for GW gold that are on Ebay.)

I think its also a common thought in this thread that the storyline is weak, and has absolutely no replay value. Creatures wander but there always in the same place bar bosses, there is no variety in the spawns each time you visit the same area, the story is very linear and a players choices make no effect on the game or story so actually were just strolling along a path - a means to an end and not a very challenging one that simply includes killing spawn after spawn over and over and over again.

So it seems GW has been set up to cater for inept low skill players who prefer to buy their in game currency, prefer not to have to take part in the story, prefering to be full level as soon as they step into GW and usually will display loverly items in PVP but fight like idiots. Anyone with any skill soon realises the only real challenge GW offers is PVP in one of its forms, be it in HoH or TA or RA or even GvG.

So really it is a weak game, bad plot and awfully boring and mind numbing repeated fighting of the same spawns hundreds of times, crap economy, includes easy cheat mechanisms such as party portal travel (running) scripting and non existant and pointless economy. You still get fools using a bug to get their guild team together in random arena and runners and farmers are more common that charr!

And dont be fooled into thinking people only get run to skip the boring as hell "roleplay" game, they do it to farm faction/exp in pre lvl 20 arenas, and if you dont believe me go and see how many IW you spot in ascalon arena, you might be surprised.

Toll Booth Willie · Mar 29, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

[QUOTE=striderkaaru]i was going to write this long, drawn out discourse on my thoughts on running, but i think toll exemplifies it pretty well.

most people don't care about learning their characters well. why? because they don't need to. someone already came up with a cookie cutter build that they read on the forums, and they want to copy it. they know the skills they need and even have the strategies laid out for them already.
QUOTE]

Running, plvling, etc is great It gets the players to the core of PvE faster(sf, uw, fow, tombs, etc). Cookie cutter builds are Great and saves them tons of money (uw/fow) and time.
They use the established builds to get started.
Example: You see on the forums that farming fow on w/me is good way to make money. You get ran to drok, plvled at troll, and get the build off the forum. Yes if they are smart they will use the build that has been proven to work on their first tries (I did). Now after doing the run for a long period I have tried an ungodly number of builds on w/everything. I certainly have learned more about a PvE warrior doing this than I would by going through the missions with max sword spamming sever, gash, galrath, ft

Silent Kitty · Mar 29, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeline

I think its also a common thought in this thread that the storyline is weak, and has absolutely no replay value. Creatures wander but there always in the same place bar bosses, there is no variety in the spawns each time you visit the same area, the story is very linear and a players choices make no effect on the game or story so actually were just strolling along a path - a means to an end and not a very challenging one that simply includes killing spawn after spawn over and over and over again.

Only to the superficial player. I was in Beacons to kill Quickroot, for his elite spell. Out of 5 attempts he only appeard once.
Also, I have been hitching to Droks many times, with this very same character (I just like to see how runners fare). Sometimes there is bad spawn, and sometimes there isn't.
You are downgrading a great game. The average player is messing things up, but henchies work too. Guild Wars is a great game, and I hope all pugs go play Factions soon, so things will quiet down in the original game.

jummeth · Mar 29, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

If bad pugs are ruining the game for Joe then Joe's the idiot. Anyone who is going to let their experience be governed by the failures of random strangers needs to re-evaluate why and how they're playing the game in the first place.
Holy crap, a mature view point. I'd have to guess that after you've played through all the missions on 4 characters you might change your view on whether you want to be run, but even if you don't that's cool with me. Doesn't hurt me any.

Unfortunately, its the 'average joe' who is the life force behind this game.
NB: unlike other games of this nature, Anet does not require subscription. The only way they can sustain this is if they can get existing players to buy second accounts or get new players to pick up the game and keep buying the expansions. [I suppose they can add ad-boards in game but i think that will ruin atmosphere]

The average joe *will* play in pugs, and expect players to be at least as competant as them, you pug for casual play in almost ANY other online game. They won't necissarily have the time to get involved with a active guild, which is incredibally time consuming.
This is a multiplayer game, your experience is *all to do* with the failings and accomplishments of random people.

RE: 2nd/3rd/4th/100th characters, this point is moot, I think that by that point, especially if you have finished the game you will have a large friends list and/or guild to support you to create a new character.

If due to running, the general experience of 'high level' players is lowered and that in turn makes pugs bad then you are already alienating a huge amount of the player base.

afaik, 'running' is really only prevailant in GW because of the instancing. However having ranted about the above, imho I think its a nice aspect of the game, since you can get quite creative with running builds, which pre-longs the game for more experianced players.

As for people finding the game too short/bored etc w/e, try experimenting with new builds, deviate from the cookie cutter. Try to think about new creative ways, sure you will fall flat on your face 99% of the time, but at least you can have some fun doing it and you never know you might invent a new cookie.
If that fails, I think its time to move on to a new game or new thing irl =O